Growth & Grace

Wesley Knight 0:00
This is a KU NB studios original program. The following program is underwritten by Crawford management group and Chris glow and does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jazz and Moore the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education even better than I was the last time. Baby

Leaha Crawford 0:35
we back and we back and we back and we back and we back. You. Hey, happy Saturday. It's cold outside, but not cold.

Julian Rosado 0:47
It's cool. No, then it gets like 90 degrees in the afternoon, but it's a pause. This is my favorite season. Now it's NBA season. Time, it's NBA season already. Yeah, yeah. And LeBron. LeBron is looking for his way out. LeBron is looking for his way out.

Leaha Crawford 1:11
That means, oh, my God, that means I'm watching basketball and football. Yeah, yeah. All right, I gotta get back in the rhythm after I finish this program,

Julian Rosado 1:19
NBA trying to squeeze as much games out on these boys

Leaha Crawford 1:24
for the money they paying them. They should, for the money they're

Julian Rosado 1:27
gonna have them pull all types of muscles.

Leaha Crawford 1:29
Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So NBA season started. So who we watching in football this week? What you what you got?

Julian Rosado 1:36
Um, I think I'm just taking a break this week, and I'm back on the NBA right now. Oh, you're NBA.

Leaha Crawford 1:44
Drop you want to you was all excited about the football and the Dallas Cowboys playing. Was it Minnesota?

Julian Rosado 1:50
Yeah, yeah. But all the things, yeah, at least for two weeks right now. This is

Leaha Crawford 1:54
just like, the middle of the season. So you're not really Yeah, because everybody winning, everybody winning and losing and Okay, so we got to let them figure it out. Yeah? All right. Well, you know, I'm still E, A, G, L, E, S. I don't care what they do. I don't care what y'all say. I am Eagles all the way. I always I'm an Eagles fan. All right, so today, y'all, we're gonna talk about cyber security. I don't know if y'all I'm ready, if y'all are ready, because technology is here and it's here to stay, and we have the pleasure of having, Dr Matt Jackson Jr, did I get it right? Yeah, absolutely. Dr Mac Jackson Jr, here on the show, I'm gonna call you. Dr Mac, make it easy. Appreciate it. All right. Dr Mac, it's all good. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. All right, so tell us a little bit about who are you? Who is?

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 2:37
Dr Mac, all right, I am a Las Vegas native, born and raised here. Oh, wow. Went to UNLV, yes, Las Vegas high

Leaha Crawford 2:44
school. Did you the old Las Vegas High School? One downtown? Yeah, Student

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 2:49
Body President back in the day, really? Yeah,

Leaha Crawford 2:52
he gonna smile. Y'all, y'all gotta see that was cute. Did you play basketball? Did you

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 2:56
play any I played football. I played football. I did some acting, and also was in Jubilee for two years.

Leaha Crawford 3:03
So Las Vegas High School, okay, so Las Vegas high school now is east. Is way east.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 3:07
It's center. It's the center of Las Vegas. Well, yeah, now the new one

Leaha Crawford 3:10
is, the new one is, but the old one is on the one downtown, yeah, seventh and Bridger, seventh and Bridger, okay, Las Vegas Academy is Las Vegas Academy, right? That's funny. My daughter graduated from Las Vegas Academy, did she? Yes? She did. Yes, she did. Wow. Las Vegas. Wow.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 3:24
Okay, Las Vegas high school. Where did you graduate? I graduated in the good old 1980 Oh, okay, all right. I love it. Did you play basketball at all? I played football. I played

Leaha Crawford 3:36
soccer. Played football when you played soccer? Okay? Because then you have Valley at the time, Valley High

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 3:42
School you had, yeah, there was about 15 high schools back in the day. Yeah, about 15, right. And back then, when we were seniors in in high school, UNLV had a program that, if we had maintained a high GPA, we can get admitted to UNLV. So in my senior year, was also a freshman at UNLV too. Myself and several other students around the valley.

Leaha Crawford 4:05
Vegas was small too then, right? So, yeah, it was, it was easy to, probably easier to maneuver and get around. Oh, yeah, definitely. That's when they told me on the other that Maryland Parkway was pretty it had the little the trees in the middle of the block. Boulevard mall was, that was the mall to go to?

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 4:21
Oh, absolutely. Boulevard mall is a definitely place to hang out. Yeah, okay,

Leaha Crawford 4:24
Las Vegas native. Well, welcome, welcome. Talk about cyber security a little bit. What made? What spark was your 1980 that's pre all this computer stuff.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 4:35
I was in computers at the same time. I was dancing in Jubilee. Oh, wow as well. And I was interested in acting, doing that as well. My dad was like, Nah, let's bring you back to Vegas, and let's set you up with your own business. So I started my own computer business, doing programming, being a programmer, okay? Went to unlv here for a couple of years, and then I went to University of Phoenix. Then after that. But as I was getting into coding, I my mentors mentored me to go to law school. So I went to Thomas Jefferson School of Law, and that's where I got my master's degree. Okay, then from there, my now, my cyber security doctoral degree. Nice. That's a lot of school. Lot you never stop learning. How about that? Yeah, you never stop. And because the hackers out there, you have to, okay, because every time that we it's, it's a cat and mouse game, we'll find out what they're doing. They'll create something better, and information that we give out to our clients and our customers to protect them. Hackers have a copy of it trying to get around it. It's like you mentioned sports earlier, yeah? Like a sports team, right? The offense and the defense, the bad guys are always looking for ways to attack, and they can find out those ways they'll attack. So we have to develop every day. They only have to get it right once. We have to make sure we protect it every time.

Leaha Crawford 5:55
Wow, that's now. Is that stressful? Sometimes?

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 5:58
No, because I have a raise, a good parent, and the belief in a higher being, okay, every every time I code, or every time I go online in a dark net, and and I do investigations, I pray about it, and God's always with me. So it's helped because

Leaha Crawford 6:16
you're in the dark net, because that's something, because I've never ventured into the dark net. So I have no I've heard about it, so it really does

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 6:23
exist. Absolutely it's like, think of as a swap meet of illegal criminals, okay? And the only way you can get there is through a password. Somebody can bring you there. But just imagine different booths, like a swap meet, and anything you want to buy illegally, it's there. And that's what it's like. But you should never go there by yourself alone, because that's when you can get got as they say,

Leaha Crawford 6:50
Wow, okay, no, I'm not. I have no desire to go. I like I like being on the side. I like it a lot. So the first time you went there, talk about that, that experience,

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 6:59
when I'm there, it's always with law enforcement, never by myself, because you don't know who you're talking to, who you can trust. You can't trust anybody. You don't know. You give someone $50 in crypto, and you're waiting for them to give you something back, and they're gone take your money, just like you would if you're trying to go into certain neighborhoods, buy drugs, buy drugs, right? It's the same thing, but it's digital, it's all technology. It's the same type of logic.

Julian Rosado 7:24
So do you work for, like, the casinos at all, or

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 7:27
I have my own private business consulting firm? Okay, I have, but I also am a consultant for Texas A and M and that's through FEMA and Homeland Security. Okay? So we train emergency managers across the country when it comes to cyber threats and what they can do to protect themselves. We hit them with real cyber activity. A lot of it we make up as ethical hackers. Will create a scenario, and we'll hit them with it. See how that's really smart, how they'll react. It's I compare it to martial arts tournament. Bruce Lee once said he's not afraid of a man that knows 25,000 kicks. He's free of a man knows one kick and he's practiced at 25,000 times. And that's how we have to be with our emergency managers or police departments or fire departments, our hotels, casinos. We have to practice 1000s of times. We can't just read a manual and say, Okay, we'll do this

Leaha Crawford 8:21
just again. And again. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. So name of your company, vanderson Cyber group. Okay, so vanderson Cyber group. How do you work with every Do you ever work with better question? Do you ever work with everyday people to give us tips on what we can do to better protect our information, not to operate in fear, but to better protect our

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 8:41
information Absolutely, because the focus of my company is the human factor. Okay, it's not on hardware, software. Having the best IT equipment to protect you from hackers. You could have the most elaborate system spend millions of dollars on it. It's like the game Jenga. You have that front desk person playing. Pull out a piece of Jenga that's not properly trained in cyber security, and a whole thing falls down, just like our hotel resorts here got hit by cyber attacks. The same way. What exactly happened? Well, the MGM Grand and Caesars, they were hit by cyber attack, and it had to do with social engineering, with the help desk person, the hackers called in pretending to be an employee of the hotel, and they had partial credentials, so it convinced the support, tech support person that they needed a password reset. So when they got the password reset, they trickled down. They changed it for every other manager. It's like going home to your house and finding your doors locked, your keys don't work, and you look in the window and people robbing you, and you can't get in. That's what it was like. And they couldn't get into the system to protect it. So basically, they shut it down. They stopped slot machines. They stopped guest cards working from the door. HOURS. All of that

Julian Rosado 10:01
is that similar what happened to all the hospitals at UMC,

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 10:04
yeah, now that's where the money's at. That's where the hackers find the money. If a hacking group wants to finance organization, they'll hack into a clinic, a medical clinic, because they know that the organization will pay the ransomware, because they got to get those patients back from triage, and it's life or death thing. So they'll say, hey, we need, we want to hack you guys for $100,000 don't tell the FBI. Well, it's probably cheaper just to pay $100,000 than to tell the FBI about it and cause all kinds of chaos, right? So they'll go after hospitals, clinics, all that. And you know that hacking as a service, the dark net I was telling you about, you can actually go online, hacking as a service, and contact a hacking group and tell them that, hey, I have somebody that's on dialysis at one of the hospitals. I want you to hack them and get out of here, and you pay them cryptocurrency, they will log in, hack into the system, and they could do things like increase the incident level in their IV pumps. Don't tell me that. Yeah, no, they can do that kind of stuff. So a lot of hospitals now are now working, and that's we're training them on, is to take your information off of the internet. You know, let's pull the state off internet so it's not connected. Why do you have it there in the first place, productivity, convenience, cost savings, all of that.

Leaha Crawford 11:27
But was it really cost savings? Yeah, yeah. Because then, and it's interesting, because when you are talking, when you're having those conversations about, should we do this, right? Those are all the things that you talked about, are we going to save money? Is it will make us more efficient? Is it going to do all the things? And I guess now you really need to bring the computer expert in to talk about the risk of

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 11:46
being hacked, yeah, and the transfer of risk, yeah, people say, Okay, well, I get insurance. I'm gonna have somebody else, my IT team take care of it, not worried about it. Or I have a third party, like AWS happened this week, right? A third party take care of it? No, you got to be responsible for your data. But back to your data. But back to your question about individuals. Absolutely individuals, hospitals, they are the low hanging fruit for hackers. It's easy to hack into an individual than it is a corporation, because, remember, they have the guard firewalls and the guards around the castle, but you hack that individual and that individual, C level, person that signs of checks and does a wire transfers. Now he gets past the firewalls and he sits down at his desk, clicks a button on an email or text message. But there's another level too, that people are talking

Leaha Crawford 12:32
Okay, hold up, growth and grace. This is Leah Crawford, and I don't know if y'all are interested, but I am. I'm sitting here engaged. You never really thought about, I mean, you never really think about

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 12:43
this stuff. Another scary one for you is hackers are going after your children. The hacker can hack into your eight year old, a 12 year old child, with a photo or picture. And then, of course, the child's very excited about that photo, and he sends it to his parents. Look, Mom, friend of mine took a picture of me scoring a soccer goal or in a ballet class or in a football class, and it sends it to the parents. Now that CEO has it on their phone, they take it into their office past the firewall. So say you hacked into the child, get to the parent, bang, and now you can social engineer.

Leaha Crawford 13:18
So what do you do to protect like, okay, so you don't want your children to operate in fear, because I don't operate in fear, just with information. Never fear. What do you do to protect your children against things like that? Because, I mean, you tell them, Don't talk to strangers on the street. But what do you do you know a friend took a picture of them and sent it to them, right? Something that's innocent as picture? Yes.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 13:38
Did you know that the highest suicide growth right now. Do you think it's between boys or girls? Girls, boys? It's boys, really, because the hackers will hack in for a little child, a 14 year old child, let's say right with an AI picture of a girl that looks like his age, and he's looking at a video talking to this individual who he thinks is individual, but it turns out to really a ghost. She doesn't exist. She'll send him a nude photo, and then, in turn, what does he do? He'll send her a nude photo. And once he does that now he crossed the line, the AI will then say, Hey, by the way, I understand that your parents are religious. I'm going to show them pictures and say that you're like the opposite, same sex, unless you pay me $50 a week.

Leaha Crawford 14:28
So now this child is stressed out trying to get this person $50 a week

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 14:32
and pay and start paying, and because he can't talk to his parents about he's embarrassed, can't talk to his friends about it, he just has nowhere to turn to talk about it, so then, in turn, they end up deleting themselves, and that's where my group, in my organization, that's what I'm saying. It's a human factor. We're talking with parents to not believe in a world of fear, but communication, right? Whole communication. And love talking to the

Leaha Crawford 14:56
kids. I'm funny. You said that, because I guess in talking to children, if you can. Touch it. It ain't real. There you go. If you can't look here, can you touch her? Did you touch her? And I guess, when I think about it is, but it's, it's being a parent to and being able to notice the signs. Because I know I'm famous for taking the phone and coming in, Who you talking to and where we know, I mean, and my kids say you're too intrusive. No, I'm just making, you know, but that's just parenting, and

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 15:25
one of the things we're talking to parents is about, is becoming hackers themselves with their kids. Unfortunately, Okay, you tell, you tell your child, I buy that I bought that phone. I can watch what's on that phone. So you put apps on their phones. Anytime they're getting text messages, the parents will also get the text message as well. Text message as well. Anytime that there is a website that are visiting, there are organizations that monitor different websites, and if that website turns out to be something that law enforcement has flagged, the parent will will be aware of it. And you can put these programs on your devices where kids can't find them. That's another thing. The kids are very, very intuitive.

Leaha Crawford 16:02
They are very, oh my God. They are good. They are but I guess hiding amps and hiding apps and all that other Okay, yeah, okay, okay, all right,

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 16:12
we have to do it that way, because you could live in the best gated community we have here in Las Vegas. You got the phone, that's right, or the iPad. You're sitting there with an iPad. The door locked, the predator can, first of all,

Leaha Crawford 16:25
nobody home. First of all, you lucky if you get a closed door. Lucky if you because you said lie, who in whose house in whose house? I mean, but my children, but then my children call me crazy. They like you, you, you, yeah, because I show up, there you go school. Don't matter, and I'm liable to take phones, go through them, take it away, yeah, delete everything on

Julian Rosado 16:50
it. I have no problem watching all those shows when the kids go upstairs and slam the door

Leaha Crawford 17:00
in whose house? Oh, yeah, we never raised that window in whose house, Mom, it's so fast.

Julian Rosado 17:12
This is not real. I

Leaha Crawford 17:13
remember my son being younger, and we were, I think we were in a grocery store or something, and a child was throwing a temper tantrum. My child looked, and then he looked at me, and then he looked again. He was like, wow, and we both kept walking, but it's setting, the setting the Yeah, we don't, yeah, yeah, you said locked doors, not, not in my house. Yep.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 17:39
Got to set those boundaries for the kids, and by putting these types of apps on their devices, parents can always stay alert on what's going

Leaha Crawford 17:46
on. But then would it also be with the girl thing with the young lady picture coming to you? If I look here, can you touch her? Look, if you can't touch her, it ain't real. It's not real. But having those conversations about relationships, about like, I need to know your friends, like you can't go over nobody's house if I don't

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 18:06
know their parents. Here's another one for you. What about the free phones that the government gives out? Not at all kids now, what are they? Kids are getting the free phones. You see them in certain neighborhoods on the corner. They're giving out free phones. Well, these kids now will have two phones. They'll have one that the parents give them, but they'll have the other ones that they'll chat and go on. Tiktok, did I tell you I go through book bags?

Leaha Crawford 18:30
Did I tell you that that your book bag is subject to inspection at any given time? Love it, love it. And at any given time I'm going through your room, I'm

Julian Rosado 18:39
taking everything's house is TSA.

Leaha Crawford 18:43
I know everybody gonna be like, she crazy. No, for real, no, my house is no, but my but my children know that? Yes, my children know that. And honestly, it was our grandmother that taught me that she said, Oh, and here, in here. Everything is subject to inspection. So if you don't want me to know, don't bring it in here. That's right, you know. And yeah, but how do you I mean as a parent? Because, again, you I mean so much going on that's just another level of parenting,

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 19:17
right? Another level of parenting things that my company works, where we work with a lot of child psychologists. Okay, I am a ethical hacker, so I know about the software part working with children. We work with ethical hacker child psychology, that is to talk about ways that parents can communicate better with their children, to avoid and mitigate these type of threats, because the hackers always finding ways they can get to the child, they can get to the parent.

Leaha Crawford 19:44
Okay, all right. Well, you are listening to growth and grace. I am Leah Crawford. This is Julian macardo, and we have Dr Mac on here talking to us about cyber security. Y'all just giving us tips, things that we can do everyday, things that don't cost you any money. That's right, it just makes you a little bit more aware, so that you can see. Sign. So if your boyfriend, you know, ask them, who's your girlfriend, can I see her? Can I bring her by the house? Yes, I want to meet her, and not over the internet. I need to ride to her home. That's right. Yeah, we need to meet her parents.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 20:13
So let's, let's throw our parents and grandparents into this. That's another area that's being hacked. Okay, I'm getting have clients that are elderly. A friend of mine that I'm working with her grandmother's 95 she thought she was talking to a young gentleman. That's 80, right? She ends up losing $50,000 because she thought she was talking

Julian Rosado 20:36
and yeah, my girlfriend's mom was the same. Yeah, see that?

Leaha Crawford 20:39
No, I had a girlfriend that she thought she was dating a guy. He was a doctor, and he was asking her for money, and she started sending and all of us looked at her, and we was like, first of all, first, there you go. First thing in the equation. You need what? All right, you need that. Add a zero to that, send that to me. You know, I know. I just, but how do you because you do with the elder? I mean, they could be lonely, yep, that's a vulnerability. That's a vulnerability. Human factor. Human factor, right?

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 21:13
Yeah, yeah. Again, that Django, again, we have the human factor part of it, so we deal with the elderly, and I have people that I'm working with, and I'm training to communicate that language for the elderly. So it's not like myself coming in and talking with nine year olds. Now we have other people that there's a gentleman on my team that I'm working with. He's 85 he's a year younger than my mother, and he actually has a business to teach the elderly about identity theft and how to protect themselves from identity theft, and that's huge. Speaks that language to the elderly, especially here, yeah, so you avoid crypto crypto scams, cryptocurrency scams, investment scams, romance scams, those things that hit the elderly.

Leaha Crawford 21:53
So go ahead. So crypto romance, okay, all right, so contact information is 7028680808702 808087028680808,

Leaha Crawford 22:06
but you talked about the embarrassment, yeah, the embarrassment of this money being gone. Another vulnerability is embarrassed. Human factor. Human factor, okay, and

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 22:17
hackers work on the stuff when we do our training with Homeland Security, with law enforcement. I'm just amazed when I go to Houston and you're working with Secret Service and FBI, and we go into these labs and we talk about all the threats that are out there, it's just it all falls back to the human factor. But this is something's been going on for 1000s of years, so technologists made it easier for the bad guys.

Julian Rosado 22:39
What do you feel is a booming reoccurrence like, Okay, this is a really big problem here. This is something that's going on. This is happening in every single state. This same

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 22:53
issue, ransomware, okay? Ransomware, it's huge, because people are manipulated with the threat of being exposed, being embarrassed, and they don't and manipulate so when they'll click on something and then that the screen that pops up on there, this message pops on their screen, telling that machines locked up and they have to call those 800 these bad guys are so brazen they'll have an 800 number. So is it through text or through phone, they'll call 800 number and says, Hey, my screen just popped up ransomware. Who are you guys? Oh, yeah, your screen, your screen's locked up. They'll just get a call. And says, they'll get a call. Or you'll call them and tell them, because they'll, you'll, you'll have a number and a code, and you give them the code, they'll know that that computer that's locked up, and I'll say, send us either Walmart gift card or cryptocurrency,

Leaha Crawford 23:43
and people are embarrassed, embarrassment that that embarrassment is huge. Well, I can tell you one thing, tell your children don't send pictures. Don't send explicit pictures through text messages. Yes, but you got to tell some adults that stop sending pictures of your body parts through text

Julian Rosado 23:58
message. I have never said none.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 23:59
It's even scary. It's even scarier than that turn the kids in the backyard not to take pictures and send them on tick tock at all, because with every photo that they take, it could be a PC photo, regular, right? Everyday photo. There's meta tags connected, giving them the geo locations where they live. Oh, yeah, if the bad guys can take that photo and find out where they live. So now, but you want to know what the hard

Leaha Crawford 24:23
part is, is that your information about where you live is out there anyway, because it's public record. And a whole lot of cases, and that's another thing we have to work on, change our legislative change. Yeah, we need, we need to change the legislative process. That what it means by public record. Because, no, for real, because if you own a property, it's public record, yeah, you know? And it's easy. I mean, I tell people, you can find out where I live, because you can go to, I mean, and I looked at it, I was like, Yeah, that's me,

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 24:48
unless you put it in the trust and you have a title,

Leaha Crawford 24:52
yeah, I mean, but then again, that's you could still script for most people. It's one of those things where, yeah, coming here. You want to Okay? I told you, okay. But I guess praying, I mean, you know, just ask for the covering, because I can't operate in fear, right, right? And operate in fear,

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 25:08
right? It's we live in a society right now. There's so much information, and it's so exciting what we do, especially in hacking, what we do, because we're talking about protecting our world. So that's exciting to me. When I get clients are calling back, hey, thanks. You just saved us $10,000 you $10,000 here. You saved half a million dollars there. That's exciting

Leaha Crawford 25:25
part. Yeah, no, because I've had, I've had colleagues tell me, you know, sending payments to someone, and I guess the person was hacked, and they sent the payment, and the person got, you know, they were able to stop payment on it, yeah, fortunately, because they realized that they didn't get the confirmation or the email or something. Because yeah, and they say, but it was, it was a process.

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 25:51
Yeah, here's one for your collection agencies, right? You have a collection agency, a they get hacked. The hackers take the information and call the customers and say we've now bought the your records from collection agency. A, we're taking over the payments, so now the customers are paying the hacking group. Let's call it B, goodness, they're paying them. Boom, paying it on time. Collection a is saying, Hey, we're not hearing from these people. We're going to go after them a lawsuit. And now you have to prove that you've been hacked. You've been paying, right? Even paying. Now, I mentioned collections, is I heard now that they're doing with mortgages? Oh, yeah. Now, really, yeah, talk to me about that. Well, you have a mortgage company gets hacked, and hackers create this fictitious mortgage company. And since we've now bought company, A's mortgage company, you can now pay us the mortgage. You make a couple of payments to them, right? So it's already financially. Pay them company your original mortgage comes in and say, Hey, you're behind. No, not. Here's my receipts. Sorry, that means nothing else records you behind money to prove that.

Leaha Crawford 26:57
So how would you thank God you talk about mortgages,

Julian Rosado 27:01
yes, a lot of them have an auto pay. That's right, yeah?

Leaha Crawford 27:05
Because yes, on auto pay. Yeah, it's my mind is on auto pay. But what I can say about the mortgage company is that when there are any changes, they mail me something, right? They mail something and I'm real, you know, they they mail something to say, yeah, that's why I'm paying that thing off. Be Done. We

Dr. Mack Jackson Jr. 27:22
have to that's a good point. You meant you made there. I see where you're going with this. Always vet everything that you get everything, yeah, check it out. When in doubt, check it out. Always, you know, always, everything. Check it out.

Leaha Crawford 27:33
Okay, so y'all heard that when in doubt, check it out. That's right. You are listening to growth and grace. I am. Leah Crawford, this is your here. And Dr Mac I want to say thank you. It's the end of our time. I want to say, thank you. Come back and talk to us some more, always, and maybe when you offer a class somewhere where people can come and learn more about it. Because I'm sure there are questions out there about things that have happened, and what I can tell people, don't be embarrassed. That's right. Don't be embarrassed, take the human factor out of it, because I would rather you be a little bit, you know, a little bit embarrassed. Say something and save yourself something that's right, because what you're saving could be way more than the embarrassment that you're feeling. So true, all right, well, until next time, I guess we're watching NB, but I'm watching NFL, and he's watching Julia's watching NBA, and we will see you next week. Next week, y'all, we are bringing bank of the Western alliance, bank back on here. We're gonna talk about that loan package. All right, we'll talk about them loans. All right. Until next week. Talk to you later. Bye. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai